“13-00000 SECRET it. And I told them what I was doing. I told them I wasn't going to reply to the thing, I didn't need to as far as I was concerned, but I left it up to each individual that talked to me to make it up in his own mind. I don't know how many did or didn't, but”
“(I forget who the heck was Chief in Laos and Vietnam), but anyway, he went up to the Meo tribes and reviewed them and then he goes, "I never heard of things like this." What are you going to do with them when they do when they do that? So, but that is much later. I mean, earl”
“-16- of getting the people most concerned with something, who could operate for the president, and having them get together and help form the policy, get the president’s approval, and they were the same ones who then couldister • immediately. - C to create another big bureaucr”
“and I remember one of them. I'd pick up the phone and say, "Charlie, here's my problem: I've got to get from point A to point B and I've got to do it fast." "Jesus Christ. All right. I'll call you back." And within the hour. or whatever it took him, he'd say, "You go from A, ”
“everybody. But anyway, tnat was my relationship with Bill. I knew him well enough then. He's just a different kind of a guy. A nice guy. Easy to talk to, easy to get along with, but very opinionated, very firm in what opinions he holds, he holds, period. And it's a hell of a ”
“I'm all over the Church Committee Report. I'm listed as the "Executive Officer to" or the "Executive Assistant to" or whatever phraseology. And that has been blown by Tom Powers and God knows how many other people. I didn't blow it but a lot of other people did. So, it doesn'”
“initially. And I had to write a special memorandum to try to convince the powers that be in DDO and in personnel and in the Director's office that the things I had done which were not overseas — I didn't have enough to qualify. I had to explain and get their approval for the ”
“Fluer about it. R: He's one of the strongest against calling him. Did he indicate that to you? DCI: Yes, he indicated that to me, and for the reason that he was itx afraid that it would just advertise him. I know that, because I get up against that with every book or article that”
“13-00000 SECRET on the Committee staff. She arranged a dinner party with several of the new staff types - this is the Church Committee not the Pike Committee. Seymour Bolton called the Pike Committee guys a bunch of young whippersnapper, snot-nosed kids. Really. The staff ”
“-103-. over where he was by some people, arid I' 5 noticed at times that' he wasn’t aware that . he was. turning around and. asking a guy who) minutes before Rusk had come in to him was2 Lithe Department called him A among his comrades just, "This stupid jerk, It and so ”
“So I mentioned this a couple of times to Bill and he kind of said, "Okay, okay." I thought, "This is crazy." And I finally wrote him a letter, and I sent it to his home, not to the office, because I know what the hell happens with paper shuffling. Because I've done enough of ”
“that most of the foreign policy was coming out of Henry anyway. But with Nixon's support of course. And he had Nixon's chops to do what he had to do or wanted to do. But by and large we worked very closely, as an Agency with Kissinger. We provided all kinds of support, assets,”
“TOP SECRET 59 Acea 2021 5 4 4 6 0 0 0 on two or three points. And I said, I am exercising my rights 2 under the CIA, and so on. 3 “But he said, I have got to run, and it was about five 4 past five. And I asked him if he understood in effect what 5 he was doing,“the implic”
“middle '73 with Schlesinger and Colby. But the program by and large continued in a slightly reduced fashion and a different terminology and with much more emphasis on doing that over there than in the States. I think it's the kind of thing that, you know, you're damned if you ”
“declassified. Can't even look at my own testimony. Oddly enough, I told this to Chuck when he called me and gave me the date. I looked at my old calendars I keep all my old calendars. I never had any calendar that I kept while I was working but ever since I left the job, ove”
“-103-. over where he was by some people, and I 9 noticed at times that' he wasn’t aware that . he was. turning around and. asking a guy who) minutes before Rusk had come in to him was2 Lethe Depretment call«A him, / among his- comrades just, "This stupid jerk, it and so ”
“13-00000 SECRET time he's trying to, send them to jail. “He's your boss” I would say to Goldfarb, “he wasn't my boss, I can't figure him out any better than you can. 99 Now I'm told by Chuck Briggs that in the pile of paper that he's looking at now - as a result of the AA”
“I understand our problem on the collecting side. And so, but gradually, I don't know what the system is today and how it works, but anyway we began to break it down, but it took, well, it began in '47 and took until '67. 20 years. What you've got is two different worlds. And ”
“13-00000 SECRET talking about the Community. Around the world there are ■ thousands of people involved and they are all not out to butter their own sides on this thing. And they are trying to help. And you've got to give them a chance. And you've got to work with them and”
“the guy in charge of the whole thing, Bill Harvey, and of course the DDP himself, Dick Helms. Helms by that time....When we were doing Mongoose, none of the three people, none of the three senior people ever saw the damn thing. I think McCone was wrong not to let those thre”
“13-00000 SECRET of a circus atmosphere there was. If it were a simple executive session kind of look-see and the Senators or the Representatives involved were not running for President — some. of them like Church did, and others — depends on a whole atmosphere. It's hard ”
“want to look at it, from about 1970 on, we had been in the war in Vietnam, for five years by then. The recruits, the new people coming in, who passed all the tests and what have you, and been through the first training courses and what have you, and they were on their first a”
“13-00000 SECRET in the front office of Task Force W - it was a big bullpen where we had four or five secretaries. Bill Harvey's office here [motions with his hands]. Bruce Cheever's office here. Mine over here, and the secretaries out in what we called the bullpen. There ”
“they were also attacking Sid through me and they knew I was a good friend of Sid's. And I was trying to defend the point as I did just a few minutes ago with you. They wouldn't listen. And these were old friends. Go way back. I mean, a part of my generation. It was just someth”
“blast at one of his troops 1without himself, in effect, taking out of his guns and . shooting the SOB who did it. I'll give you a perfect example of that. I was on a telephone call to J.C. King, and J.C. was chewing me out on the phone about something I wasn't even involved”
“13-00000 SECRET why should I believe it." Well, the negotiating went on bit by bit, bit by bit, day after day. It developed everything. All they had to do was look at the information and the guy was following the text. It was unbelievable. And fortunately, fortunately, be”
“13-00000 SECRET is coming off of the Executive Branch. Somebody is trying to get some kind of yea or nea. Or some pluses. And you can't run it that way. I'm sorry. I'm not looking for an Official Secrets Act, but something that has a better control over who says what, how”
“You are going to find all kinds of references to 'as we discussed' and 'why don't we talk about this' and, you know,' let's see what we.can do about this', 'why don't we talk about this sometime in the future'. You are going to find very meaningless comments." And the guy said”
“in the area units and I was looking from across the board. But it was the same idea. We used to kick this around at lunch. How do you get instilled into the new group, the upcoming generation, the guys who are going to take over from us, that there is more to this business th”
“Congress in those days. And their concern was: a) not themselves getting to know too much of the secrets that went on; and b) they felt largely, you pick good people, you give them a job to do, you give them the tools to do it and don't muck around with them. Particularly, in ”
“got out of there. And that night I see Frank Church on television telling about all this stuff they had just heard. Not once, he never mentioned my name. My name was never mentioned except, I was told later, in the late edition, a late city edition of The New York Times in Ne”
“But, you’ll get, I think, a feeling for this relationship of the serving officers versus the old hands. INTERVIEWER: All right, the Church Committee believed the overall intelligence budget should be published. Was that 151 SECRET”
“almost the equivalent of headquarters. It was JMWAVE. He had more people under his command than we had in the branch, or in the task force up in Washington. I think he ended up with about 600 staffers including commo and logistics and God knows what else. BL: So you did so”
“saw a piece of intelligence that was worth the life of anybody. I differ with him about that. There was some intelligence which I think was worth more than the life of a person. I can give you an example of that later. But, the committees, I think, deliberately didn't want to”
“13-00000 4 SECRET Jake on that in terms of trying to get air support it was basically on a person-to-person basis. It's what you can wheedle out of somebody and get them to do it the right way instead of being able to command them and not having to spend your time massag”
“had gotten from Dan in terms of what I had said. You go and get the top lists of who was recommended for what, and you pick from those. In addition to that, obviously Harvey knew he wanted Ted Shackley down in Miami. He was only a GS-14, I think, at the time he was sent down”
“Hill. And that became an industry all of its own. I'm sure, I mean, just without even having been there, I know enough about the bureaucracy as to how it works. And it had to be. And it was a continuing operation. And it creates a hell of a lot of trouble among the troops and ”
“-29- hours. Well, it didn't happen. I suspected that it, would take longer than that; I don't } know how you intrude on T.V. stations 1 broadcasting and get the people in the 9 50 their TAV3 sets country to go immediatelytto . and watch a program. I called scientists i”
“told you, Lansdale came no down to visit me in Miami on one occasion. He came as part of to that three-man group. But my chain of command.during my to to visit was still from me to Harvey. Lansdale was down there. 02 to I was to be, you know, straightforward, candid”
“the way they, you know, handled the Congress. And Bill Casey was wrong on that. Congress, for good or bad, for good or evil, they are the ones who set it up. They are the ones who make the rules. You've got to live by the rules. Otherwise, you'd have chaos. And so the biggest ”
“were different. We were guys who had gone through the war and had started from scratch, building an organization and building a concept which was mainly an intelligence service. And particularly us in the Clandestine Service, long before we got into this covert action nonsens”
“pushed through the report that targeted the U-2), he's the guy who presented the - (lost word??). We did it on the grounds that it's in our report and it would look bad if we did it. Nobody listened to us, so we had Colonel Wright do it. He was very happy to do it, and he l”
“22 TOP SECRET 81 Phone (Area 2021 544-6000 Now, when Dr. Schlesinger came in, and I started hearing 1 all of these things of manaement by objectives, and synergistic 2 and a lot of other things, being applied to the art forms which we had developed, I finally got so frus”
“staff, even by June, is just beginning to get their feet wet on something like this. And they were looking into other operations. One was an Indonesian operation which was brought under Eisenhower's aegis. And I think they were hoping to use that again as another example of a ”
“added it up and you guys didn't. That's all. Everybody was using pieces, using the magic figure it appeared was made up some years ago. Times have changed. The enemy has doubled its strength right under our very noses." That was my one nice big session with Bill Colby. That's”
“13-00000 SECRET that I had made in doing the study on DCS, that come what may with my report, whether it was a good report or a lousy report, I didn't want people to assume that once I made the report that I would move in and take over DCS, you know. Being charged with ha”
“13-00000 SECRET Washington getting acclimated to what FE was all about, who the people are and what have you and the various talks and the various comments and what have you, and later while he was out in Saigon, we regarded him as a great "nation builder" -- quote unquote”
“13-00000 SECRET of Mount Sinai. You know. And he said, "Most of these things are done by people like you and me." He said, "I don't know what you had for breakfast. Whether you had a fight with your wife. Whether you had a cold and a headache that day." And a lot of these”
“them.” Moves his arm as if he is slamming down the receiver. I think J.C. must have lost his ear then. It was awful. Ok, you got a guy like Bill Harvey in charge Jake couldn't do that. But Jake for example, Jake and Col. Jack Hawkins both resigned from.the Bay of Pigs operat”
“cameras. You don't go near the cameras if it's executive session. If not, what the hell, make it a public session. He's doing it anyway. INTERVIEWER: What about the Church Committee and its focus on covert action? One view that was expressed is that there was a 108 SECRET”