“-9- O'BRIEN: Well, I suppose you had some conversations with Dulles and with Bissell and some of these people about it. LANSDALE: Yes. O'BRIEN: What's their feeling? You already discussed. , asking you to sort of hold your criticism, ..0. LANSDALE: Well, Bissell definitely f”
“-9- O’BRIEN: Well, I suppose you had some conversations with Dulles and.with Bissell and some of these people about it. LANSDALE: Yes. O’BRIEN: What’s their feeling? You already discussed • _king you to sort of hold your criticism,. • 0 LANSDALE: Well, Bissell definitely fel”
“the meetings that th; had. When Allen Dulles (Allen W. Dulles) .. St raised the notion to *his,ihnem, the Senate group. I was present at the meeting as an Assist: O’BRIEN: What is the thinking about it at that time?' What kind of operation is -it basically a guerilla opera”
“-10-. ' reaction to Castro in general? LANSDALE: Just in very general terms. KI didn’t have enough concrete and specific information myself that was separate from theirs.' Most. of the intelligence take at the time, avail able inside the U.S. government, was pretty” colo”
“-10-. ■ reaction to Castro in general? LANSDALE: . Just in very general terms. HI didn’t have . enough concrete and specific information . myself that was separate from theirs.’ Most . of the intelligence take at the time, avail able inside the U.S. government, was pretty”
“the meetings that this had. When Allen Dulles (Allen W. Dulles) st raised the notion to the Senate group, I was present at the meeting ) as an Assists: O’BRIEN: What is the thinking about it at that time?' What kind of operation is -0 it ■ , r basically a guerilla operati”
“-3- stopped my visit to Vietnam, and back- . stopped it principally so that I could take a look at some of the political factors as well as economic, military, and psychological^ and everything else. This, frankly, took a consife - standing on his part. . that because my ”
“-3-- stopped my visit to Vietnam, and back stopped it principally so that I could take a look at some of the political factors as 0 well as economic, military, and psychological / and everything else. This, frankly, took a . consid - standing on his part. . that because”
“-38- arid put together some rough first papers for Taylor to start his thinking for the president. formed a Then when Taylor stprtedhis group * .A. I wasn't invited in on it and I didn't attend. A O'BRIEN: Sure. :got any insight. .. etinu it, right after the formati”
“-38- arid put together some rough first papers for Taylor to start his thinking for the president. formed - Then when Taylor seprtea his group) I wasn't invited in on it and - didn't attend. A O'BRIEN:. Sure. W-h ngot any insight.. otanu it, right after the formation ”
“-17- talking so much. • O’BRIEN: Was he pretty tough? LANSDALE: Well, he wasn’t tough.. He was the most ineter- ested of anyone in the room there of what I would say on things and plague me with many questions. O’BRIEN: How were his questions? Was he fairly naive about t”
“-14- into it again at that point at any time? :LANSDALE: No. O’BRIEN: You do become involved in Cuban affairs at a later time. LANSDALE: Later, yes. ho O’BRIEN: When do you 00 you have any- which makes the inquiry about it? with the (Maxwell) Taylor +1 T.. committee”
“-14- into it again at that point at any time? LANSDALE: No.. O’BRIEN: You do become involved in Cuban affairs at a later time. LANSDALE: Later, yes. h5 O’BRIEN: When do 00 you have any- .with the (Maxwell) Taylor committee 0 Which makes the inquiry about it? LANSDALE: I m”
“-17- talking so much.. • O’BRIEN: Was he pretty tough? A 4 LANSDALE: Well, he wasn’t tough. He was the most ineter- • ested of anyone in the room there of what I .- would say on things and plague me with many - questions. O’BRIEN: How were his questions? Was he fairly na”
“1 -41- very structure considerably for the lowest class in Bolivia, and with the arms forces doing it. This, again,was the very first.visit. A gn In Venezuala, I had come up with some ways of safeguarding our own interests in.. Ke 91 Vene zuala-which are not only oil pr”
“-39- in dealing with some of the dissident areas and so on. All I had done was not plan- ning as much as coming in with sort of a shopping list of what people might look for. and individuals in these countries they might talk to to. .get information, on what was happe”
“-13- 50 don’t know.”,I gathered that he felt it would 1 succeed. 7 O’BRIEN: Well then 10you are pretty much from the point that you battle ito out of touch • with it until it actually comes off. You LA N DALE: That's didn’t get i nBo any of the changes in the Righto O'BR”
“1 -41- very structure considerably for the.lowest class in Bolivia, and with the armed forces doing it. This, again,was the very first .visit.. • In Venezuala, I had come up with some ways of safeguarding our own interests in.. Te Venezulla-which are not only oil produc”
“-12- nd met them, I didn’t get in on that© The one woula-av, WO person who has a view of their reactions 1o.th-m] would probably be Bill Bundy, (William Bs Bundy) who I know at the time was discussing this with them. O'BRIEN: Did you have ... Bundy and his £00 ... - at ”
“-30- down in Havana who operates a T NT station and asked him. thesa He gave me all the dope, and I just wrote it down." So this is the way we got the information for it. 9 The intrusion of the T.V. space never took place, but we got the means together and some airborne”
“. -42- Guatemala, and it worked very well there for a time. The Latin Americans became quite enthusiastic; though again jealousies come in. A They thought the Guatemalans were boasting too much about it. So,0when I was told that problem; I said, Well, get them to emulate”
“-28- and let him do that. We have some wonderful' Americans; and this 08 1 was what I was trying to do, was to find out A. which Americans have not only our interests. / at heart but were enough interested in foreign cotricc to be /- to understand and have • pi. reall”
“-28- and let him do that. We have some wonderful Americans) and this 0 was what I was trying to do, :wEs to find out A which Americans have not only our interests at heart but were enough interested in foreign co - 03 to be - ■ ■ - 0 understand and have . - really would”
“-42- Guatemala, and it worked very well there for a time. The Latin Americans became quite enthusiastic, though again jealousies come in. They thought the Guatemalans were boasting too much about it. So,/when I was told that w problem I said, .Well, get them to emulate an”
“-12- and met them, I didn’t get in on that. The one .wwbu/A Faye person who has a view of their reactions . . Tillite P.T. . 95 would probably be,Bill Bundy, (Wi±hiamt • Bundy) who I know at the time was discussing this with them.-. O’BRIEN: Did you have -Bundy and . h”
“-30- down in Havana who operates a T KT station thisa and asked him. He gave me all the dope, and A: I just wrote it down." So this is the way 19 we got the information for it. 9 The intrusion of the T.V.Jspace never took place, but we got the means together and some ai”
“-22- in whose name these works are accomplished. would have no idea that he would ever desire to know some of the things that they’re working on very hard-—you discover whole buildings and all = 0 sorts of equipment busilly accumulating facts ■ • would say, I can’t A 30”
“1 -13-. 50 don't know." I gathered that he felt it would succeed. O’BRIEN: Well then 0you are pretty much out of touch 1 A . . From • the point that. You ----- - _.battle DALE: ito That's . with it until it actually comes o: IN You LARig NS hto O'BRIEN: didn't get i”
“-120- O’BRIEN: Well when you get back, you talk to President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, and John McCone) A as I understand, in a rather private meeting. What happened here? LANSDALE: Well, this was when I came back, I met the A President. I went in with Taylor and Rost”
“-120- O'BRIEN: Well when you get back, you talk to President A 9 Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, and John McCone) as I understand, in a rather private meeting. What happened here? LANSDALE: Well, this was when I came back, I met the A President. I went in with Taylor and Rosto”
“-22- in whose name these works are accomplished, would have no idea that he would ever desire to know some of the things that they’re working on very hard- you di scover whole buildings and all sorts of equipment busilly accumulating 0 facts ■ ■ '' arese would say, I can’”
“-45-. EANSDALE: Very much so, very much SO0. 2 O'BRIEN: Like rural economic development, 9 and agricul- Jural development. 2 LANSDALE: Particularly the oil companies, and I was 2 surprised. Standard [Oil Company of New—Jersey] showed me what it was doing because the rigs”
“-8- knowledgeable, and there was a planning group at CIA, but I don’t think it went beyond that. I don’t know how far it was known, but I thought it was rather closely held. O'BRIEN: You don’t know whether the presidential candi- dates •• .at all, do you? LANSDALE: Yes c.by”
“-7- stage. I remember General (Lyman L. Lemnitzer was sitting in the meeting- A A He was,chairman of the JCS Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time, and he backed up my urging them to get some military planning in on that. After the aent among our polin die of that, and then”
“-6- LANSDALE: . He was one of a planning group who were the planning the operation, but he wasn’t chief, A and I can’t recall the guy's name offhand. O'BRIEN: Oh well, maybe when you get the transcript back, LAASDALE-MaLe son OREN:A you can. How about from some of the othe”
“-6- LANSDALE: . He was one of a planning -group who were planning the operation, but he wasn’t ‘chief / 94450c, and I can't recall the.guy's name offhand. O'BRIEN: Oh well, maybe when you get the transcript back) LANSDALE:MayLe son OBRIEN; A you can. How about from some”
“-8- knowledgeable, and there was a planning group at CIA, but I don't think it went beyond that. I don't know how far it was known, but I thought it was rather closely held. O’BRIEN: You don't know whether the presidential candi- dates. ... at all, do you? LANSDALE: Yes ey ”
“-7- . stage. I remember General (Lyman L.D. Lemnitzer was sitting in the meeting - He was.chairman of the JCS (Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time, and he backed up my urging them to get some military planning in on that. After th lent among our poiin pie of that, and then ”
“-31- 01 It took us tgen, twelve days to do it, and the time for them to do it had passed over, and the Russians stood down in the interim, so the need had passed. O’BRIEN: tWell how do you come back into. . . well. maybe, perhaps we ought to pursue this.whole business of ”
“-123- O'BRIEN: Yos. who were W Yeah. Who were the people on your staff at that point?- LANSDALE: Well, let's see?n One of them was Sam Wilson, ) 2 , who. now a brigadier general in the Army-o 4 A Bowell 2. 22 Jack Bowles- was a Navy Captain who went down to serve w”
“-31- 08 It took us then, twelve days to do it, and the time for them to do it had passed over, and the Russians stood down in the interim, so the need had passed. O'BRIEN: Well how do you come back into. .. well. maybe, perhaps we ought to pursue this whole business of co”
“-18- LANSDALE: It was a traumatic experience at top levels of-the government. I think it affected Throughout President Kennedy more than any other single thing. It was almost a taboo subjectoif you were going in to do business and to get an approval on something me never e”
“-110- isn't my idea of a good spot to be in. You just get belabored over that. O’SIN tAySPKL*: Well, did Nolting ever try to get you back to A Vietnam, in an advisory position? LANSDALE: I think so. There were a number of attempts by the- Vietnamese themselves, and unfortun”
“1 -123- Yos.0 0WILE O'BRIEN: Yesh- Who were the peopleW on your staff at that point? *& LANSDALE : Well, let's see? D One of them was Sam Wilson, 1 whose now a brigadier general in the Army 0 Bowell A Jack Bowles- was a Navy Captain who went down to serve with the J”
“-39- in dealing with some of the dissident areas and so on. All I had done was not plan- ning as much as coming in with sort of a shopping list of what people might look for, and individuals in these countries they might talk to to. .get information, on what was happe”
“i -11- up with details of whether it could succeed or not. That was my last advisory role with him. I was taken off advising on the project after that, actually by my own request because I was apparently causing too much trouble and orks of progress. O’BRIEN: ‘lac's the”
“-45- EANSDALE: Very much so, very much sop- 2 O'BRIEN: --Like rural economic development, 9 and agricul- fural development. 2 .■ LANSDALE : . Particularly the oil companies, and I was ' A Ci- surprised. Standard [Oil Company of—New—Jersey] showed me what it was doing becau”
“-32- that up originally, I don’t know. I was rather surprised--he seemed to have seen copies of lectures and other things that — I’ve given A on the subject, But- who - had passed those to him and who had talked to him about it, I just don't know. 0 BRIEN: Let's sa”
“-40- LANSDALE: Well, Bolivia. In Bolivia, I was interested in particularly the Bolivian Air Force’s .■.work of setting up a public school system over in the eastern slopes of the Andes-- down in the jungles and in the very sparse settlements. They were really the one gover”
“-32- that up originally, I don't know. I was rather surprised—he seemed to have seen copies of lectures and other things that I’ve given on the subject, But-, who had A passed those to him and who had talked to him about it, I just don't know. BRIEN: Let's say, let'”