“TOP SECRET 35 Phone (Area 202) g o now current DDO, was station security and liaison. C Mr. Kirbow. Can you see this getting any better with your new selectee who is coming from the outside world? 4 Probably knows the term counterintelligence, but knows nothing 5 abou”
“e. Intelligence information often looks sensitive to the layman or generalist when the expert will tell you it is innocuous. And conversely, what seems innocuous to the layman can be quite sensitive. Our job is to help you distinguish the one from the other. f. we rely on you to”
“the intelligence 21 community to help him in the task of establishing these requiremen Now this is, an increase in .his authority from his current posture. He has feyt.o the authority to issue didance 20 in the preparation of rociremonts but he can’t really say do Ithis”
“on that sub ward secrecy—I'll do the best I can agreement. We are ourselves culpable in some ways for not giving people Let Da ject. We will not submit administration not ever to make a mistake. And I’m 1 legislation because the Congress has already moved substantially for”
“of course, we have laws which say 23 you can’t destroy material. I would say that the safeguards 24 lagain come back to the basic integrity of the people in the 25 organization. When you lose a President, you do not mess 00P otLKET ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY HW 50955 Do”
“questions. . cies in our Government to make sure by those who disagree with us political- Mr. Frank Cormier, that they are meeting these standards. ly. *nee : Questions and Answers So I think that we all ought to take TM 1. Defense Budget 3. Correcting Errors on C.I.A. a posit”
“M *S *MeE 36 ! this recommendation as 1, not simply in the context of the 0 President’s own proposals and own measures that he has taken but in terms of the measures which we propose be taken in statute. which of course the oversight committee or whatever responsible 5 ”
“That would be th... in rossson that would think that you would move the DCI nra, from that. Senator Mathias. But it does not appear to me that you • exonerate vour national intelligence officer, whatever you Bicall him, just .because, you have someone else you can also po”
“0 0 3 I am glad to. 20 Mr. Baron. There may be one way you can help right now. 21 I know that before we. started today Bill Miller, the Staff 22 Director of the Committee, indicated that the Committee would 23 be interested in hearing you out at great length on policy ”
“#* **-N6DA 1U In this specific situation, for example, we’ve already 2 not the Attorney General being involved with the oversight responsibilities. When he takes office he already has the ,1 obligation to see that all the laws and activities of agencies 5 are carried out”
“as to who will do this, but the authority - I'm sorry. it is clear. But the putberity of the DCI to reprogram funds within the intelligence ldedt should be limited by statute. The Pre 3ident'. I-li Kpentitiee nudar dig to the C-apint toe on 0n i Torsion Tarhel ligence nt ”
“14 2 v. wNa6 IT6 - . 14 iso far would have legislative authority over. So we’re really just recommending here that in this statute they provide the framework under which these kinds of reprogramming can be a done in view of the fact that we are extending the DCI from hisi”
“frequency it but also will let the American people to do to help victims of political repres of those reports and the, complexity know about it. sion in these countries? of them., I might say this. This is a very serious A. I think without my trying to take We will complete t”
“oper telligence task force;. John El- closed, 212-hour meeting that ations, noth foreign and do liff, head of the domestic in ’he had been authorized to mestic. '■ telligence task force; Alton H. write another letter to Pres The Idaho senator said the Quanbeck, head of the ”
“MD1016 a 1118 LayAIM J 1801 TH • • NOTES FOR SESSION.. In previous sessions we discussed the importance of. highlighting issues’likely- to grow out of Commission or,. Committee deliberations. We observed that we should identify some of those on which a legal brief or ann”
“0r"8 SECREA 9 elements to be included sithin a national intelligence budget o in other words, what parts of the community would fit into that. where you draw the line between technical and national intelli- 1 dence, between departmental and national intelligence. 5 This”
“*d%K8h Mr. Aaron. That lnot what we want to convey and so 9 vou are correct. Mr. Kirbow. They should review the policies and goals 4 and requirements. really. 5 Mr. diGenova. How about policy at the end of the first gion tence? 7 Mr. Aaron. Human intelligence collec”
“A€..%*n-5 words on paper. It tries Fo not at the problem of what are the 2 I programs and are they doing their job? 0 Mr. diGenova. Who do they make the recommendations to? The CFI? Mr. Aaron. Yes, or the President. Mr. Maxwell. One remark in connection with - '1 / ”
“counterintelligence to 0O the nation. That is my personal opinion. They do not — they Do have not had experience in counterintelligence. They've never CM CM worked in counterintelligence. And quite frankly, they do not CM D understand the problems involved in counte”
“#°i A).a tat Pane 16 dav while the responsibility for directing tactical military 2 operations resides with whoever it is. , the DCI still ' shall have the review. 4 Mr. Davis. Well, review is, I think, the right word' because ' he’s going to try to, look at the whole. ”
“be the recipient of all intelligence flowing ‘9 into our overall national intelligence effort, and that 23 intelligence includes overt intelligence as collected from 24 the Treasury Department from Commerce from Labor attaches. 05 abroad, the full scone of information col”
“and onints-out that he should prepare this 0O budget, present it to the President and to the Congress who would make some referone born to the language in the President s Pnmttn Andor ith Ir ’' OF It makes tho pint that the dofinition of the 107 SECRET ‘‘/* nPVL NW 50”
“***** Iconcern that it not iliete that we had found seme evidence 2 that we had just not revealed. e Mr. Bader. Perhans it would be helpful. Senator, but nt the same time the Administration has come forward with 5 Language of all political assassinations, which seems to ”
“Beard economic interpretation of the Constitution. Do an intelligence interpretation of foreign affairs. I don't care what you call it. But it is there. Nobody is hiding it. Not any more we 131 • SECRET”
“W' O Senator Huddleston. Could we solve it by just having a o1 narrative statement at the and of all of these recommendations relating to the DCI to say that the foregoing, preceding 1 recommendations would, if carried out, substantially strengthen 5 the role of the DCI”
“h *** r ! D r -: E D IN C S Senator Huddleston •ot is come to order. Mr. Aaron. The agenda today is to proceed with the DCI i 4■ I section and in addition we would like to get the Subcommittee’s : 5 if you will substantive arrroval of the paper on the production j o”
“power. He . considers himself not only the head of a particular government agency but also "the Director of Central Intelligence" and in 11/13/98 CLASSIFIED BY 5668-S20/mide 62-80750- 4166 DECLASSIFY ON; 25X SFE ENCLOSURE ‘ 1® t of ten hath the HW 52333 DocId: 32313069 Pag”
“.long for this commit too -orrimend to another comid tree that 9 maybe they ought to do metbin but I guess it’s all right. Mr. Aaron. I’m a raid we do that quite a bit. a + Mr. Miller. We’re just laving out the agenda. r. Mr. Kirbow. Which is not binding on them. Mr.”
“this gives ‘ atil the Secretary Of State the chairmanship of a committee and I think promerly so. that doala with this larger problem of 5*2,. whither human intel licence so Ilection. Ur. Maxwell. r+1e unclear hers whether it's chaired 24 ”[, hy • representative of t”
“tethi ‘1 8*03 ***1, 25 1 emergency mavbe?. o Mr. Aaron. Well, r think the way we came on it was to 6 simply say if you have the process for a time of war, the 1 president may exercise it. and he may exercise it if he feels 5 it's a crisis. 6. The point was just to hav”
“ri-ti PPM SECRET 24 1 Mr. Miller. Insulate thin political pressure. That 's the point. Not the point of view of opinion. Senator Hart. Mr. Chairman, I move that this paragraph 4 stay in. that se move on. 5 Senator Huddleston. I think we discussed that S thoroughly ye”
“11:30-12:00 Mr. Thomas Hughes, Deputy j Director, Intelligence and 73/36%/V0 Research, Department of Stat e. 12:00-1:00 Lt. General Joseph Carroll, Director, DIA CONFIDENT AI, ".v z“tat.• •”
“which establishes the counter intelligence committee 0) 9 and it deals with the two cidos of these activities. On the nt. one hand it’s going to rovis nocaram for positive foreign intelligence dollgation, al-n etino taitliym Pho in Foil States 1 21 and on the other band ”
“It’s made transferred; some emphasis 1on the /____ cor- . a legitimate pursuit of mine. I can’t by the independent Intelligence Over rection of inequities and unfairnesses force it. It’s got to be voluntary. And sight Board, which was established and in the retirement system.”
“•j U -Hi d. A .0 1 would be advantageous t porata them. Is that what we’re saving there? Mr. Aaron. Yes. rthink there are really three options 1 one is to leave the stuff out, and my own personal preference ET, would be to leave it out anti rely if the committee did no”
“imperative 19 that the Committee complete its investigation on the issue of 20 the assassination of foreign government leaders before the 21 recess and issue its report. That puts us under great pressure. 22 but if we don't do it, I am going to ask the Committee to stay ”
“geb 75 Ke *6KE 1 further to say that there would be an annual review of this 2 activity by the Senate oversight committee and by the 5 i counter-intelligence committee which we proposed be established 41 and has been agreed here as a recommendation of the National 5 Secur”
“W-”• o*P•% 85 ; for this paragraph, that Be review and that he advise the President and the committee if in his opinion any of these practices violate the Co istitutional rights of American citizens ■ *.! or any other laws. 5 Mr. Kirbow. 1 I would fee I. much better abou”
“personnel and manpower. And you can 21 tie up NSA : monitoring all the links. 22 And so this idea that has all of a sudden been novel and1 newly discovered in the Agency that Counterintelligence must 23 be aggressive is in my view a joke. It's a joke. 24 Mr. Miler. You ”
“NTEL LI GENCE, HE GOES ON TO REQUEST BRIEFI NO S ON THE ORGANIZATIONAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR COVERT OPERATIONS AND POLIT- ICAL CONTROL OF PO LITICAL OPERATIO NS WITH THE FO REIGN OFFICE, IN ADDITION HE WANTS BRIEFINGS ON Intelligence BUDGET ALLOCATION AND Coordination AND SYST”
“you refuse standing. "voluntary." And to the extent that to’ give them any idea of wait you A reassessment of priorities of the I can arrive at a common understand have discovered during this review evolution of new weapons which in the ing with industry and labor leaders th”
“#* h* PRE 1ali‘‘ 33 ‘gravity that that gave ‘ifm then he would be a disembodied 47. snirit. But we’re talking about a somewhat different situation now where he' has real authority over the budget. .■1 Mr. Kirbow. But also presupposes. Mr. Chairman, that you 5 have dec”
“more jhretthatsas-de vo. th * r* t.e - : :: - E1.. 17 : 1 2 Mr. Halley. No. I answered that, that I don’t recall 3Iany such conversation where Helms told me could or could not I mean, ■ ' this was not a, subject that was being discossed. x think the frame of reference at”
“to them will go ahead with the B-1. ■ 0 be the elements that will cause them to make those sacrifices. At the same But I can’t answer that question until 1 . The New York Times/Teresa Zabala I complete my own study, and I think time, I want to increase the surety that cutive”
“51 TOP SECRET 51 1 and saying we examined proprietaries, we found them to be — 2 they had problems but basically they were all right. 5 Mr. Inderfurth. Couldn't that be in the body as well? 4 Mr. Kirbow. .The one thing we have failed to do on this 5 Committee'is where w”
“~dh 91 T00 SECRET 9 1. ■1. that. 2 Mr. Aaron. I think that’s a fair point. The question, 5 I guess, the case at which the certification would run most would 4 add to what already is in the sentence preceding it which A’s 0 is review by the Committee which the Attorney Ge”
“#* *r:% at *, A In 18 nagg‘24, recommendation 16. The Director also would be empowered 2 to establish a board of senior advisors. Now who is that? Who J’s that board? •1 Mr. Davis. This would be something similar to the board 5of national estimates. Senator Hart. Is ”
“TOP SECRET 4 1 and inquiry into it has been thorough, and I think we know this 2 well. There is no dispute from the Agency. 5. Senator Huddleston., Weil, is the law inconsistent with 4 the statute on the information service? 5 Mr. Bader. It is the same .thing. I would r”
“TOP SECRET 16 1 talking ■i about less than 25 people, where you are going to make 2 a statutory prohibition against use of all people in that 3 category because on page 61 it says, "of the 65 Americans 4 employed by the CIA in the media field, only a little over 5 one”
“strictly political matters. We believe that, at a minimum, when CIA is asked for a memorandum that inquiries should be made of SKORET - 27 -”