“statements done under oath before the Senate Intelligence Committee, or the Church Committee really, where at least it's being discussed. I don't see how anybody, on any of this stuff, particularly after the Bay of Pigs Operation, dealing with the Agency, I don't think anyth”
“-103-. over where he was by some people, and I 9 noticed at times that' he wasn’t aware that . he was. turning around and. asking a guy who) minutes before Rusk had come in to him was2 Lethe Depretment call«A him, / among his- comrades just, "This stupid jerk, it and so ”
“13-00000 SECRET time he's trying to, send them to jail. “He's your boss” I would say to Goldfarb, “he wasn't my boss, I can't figure him out any better than you can. 99 Now I'm told by Chuck Briggs that in the pile of paper that he's looking at now - as a result of the AA”
“13-00000 SECRET on the Committee staff. She arranged a dinner party with several of the new staff types - this is the Church Committee not the Pike Committee. Seymour Bolton called the Pike Committee guys a bunch of young whippersnapper, snot-nosed kids. Really. The staff ”
“-103-. over where he was by some people, arid I' 5 noticed at times that' he wasn’t aware that . he was. turning around and. asking a guy who) minutes before Rusk had come in to him was2 Lithe Department called him A among his comrades just, "This stupid jerk, It and so ”
“-16- of getting the people most concerned with something, who could operate for the president, and having them get together and help form the policy, get the president’s approval, and they were the same ones who then couldister • immediately. - C to create another big bureaucr”
“13-00000 SECRET talking about the Community. Around the world there are ■ thousands of people involved and they are all not out to butter their own sides on this thing. And they are trying to help. And you've got to give them a chance. And you've got to work with them and”
“know - maybe he wasn’t l there - but anyway II get ' the-draft. If they had said but anyway the President wants you_to such and such II might to do such might)-) answer..:Ike’s got a good7 different answer have given him a different military background, better than mine,—”
“13-00000 SECRET ■ SH: I hadn't told him. I must have never told him the name. He's got a note to that effect; a footnote on that same page where he talks about this operation in the book. If you've got the book around I'll show you. In terms of assassination plots, first ”
“13-00000 going to be able to handle the situation as they would want to handle it. They have to depend upon local police organizations. Many local police departments are capable and efficient; some are not. Many have good judgment and some have not. Wherever you have a polic”
“13-00000 SECRET show you how we felt, me and my buddies, these three other military guys, when the Colonel arrived — I was the only civilian and these guys were all majors. They were, you know, "There's a colonel coming." So I was the guy chosen to, and I volunteered too. ”
“13-00000 SECRET it. And I told them what I was doing. I told them I wasn't going to reply to the thing, I didn't need to as far as I was concerned, but I left it up to each individual that talked to me to make it up in his own mind. I don't know how many did or didn't, but”
“13-00000 SECRET SH: We solved that problem. BL: Because the IG report criticized the Bay of Pigs Operation because of the poor coordination/communication between Miami and Headquarters. SH: We did it without knowing that. We set up our organization without knowing wha”
“13-00000 SECRET is coming off of the Executive Branch. Somebody is trying to get some kind of yea or nea. Or some pluses. And you can't run it that way. I'm sorry. I'm not looking for an Official Secrets Act, but something that has a better control over who says what, how”
“want to look at it, from about 1970 on, we had been in the war in Vietnam, for five years by then. The recruits, the new people coming in, who passed all the tests and what have you, and been through the first training courses and what have you, and they were on their first a”
“13-00000 SECRET MW: What was the impression about IG report at the time? In the trenches? There must have been rumors. What did you know about it? SH: We didn't see it. All we knew about it was that it was a bad report; that Kirk had taken the knives out and was really ”
“13-00000 SECRET that I had made in doing the study on DCS, that come what may with my report, whether it was a good report or a lousy report, I didn't want people to assume that once I made the report that I would move in and take over DCS, you know. Being charged with ha”
“I'm all over the Church Committee Report. I'm listed as the "Executive Officer to" or the "Executive Assistant to" or whatever phraseology. And that has been blown by Tom Powers and God knows how many other people. I didn't blow it but a lot of other people did. So, it doesn'”
“of an operation, you don't go into details of your sources. The only guy that ever did that was Des. That was 1963. His final report to Des was simply, You guys are shooting yourselves in the foot. This information is very good, not just good but very good and you are maskin”
“13-00000 SECRET that. Bissell was a one-man operator and Helms knew exactly what to expect from Tracy Barnes. BL: But the complaint is that, I think, in the IG report, Kirkpatrick's complaint about Helms is that Helm's did not ring the alarm bells. SH: He should have. ”
“13-00000 SECRET to say “how about an estimate of some kind.” Ray was the wrong guy because Ray and Sherman didn't see eye to eye on anything. But anyway the word got around, and I think we can take credit for prodding Sherman and his staff to do an estimate on all of thes”
“initially. And I had to write a special memorandum to try to convince the powers that be in DDO and in personnel and in the Director's office that the things I had done which were not overseas — I didn't have enough to qualify. I had to explain and get their approval for the ”
“13-00000 SECRET the floorboards. When he got on those highways he was murder. This is what always made me think somewhere during those weekends he must have seen Bobby, because he came in all charged up. I asked him over and over again, not just once but several times, wh”
“13-00000 SECRET said, "That money was appropriated by Congress under my command, my responsibility. It stays with me. We'll work with you and we'll help you and we'll be part of your team kind of thing. But I can't relinquish control over men, money, and material as approp”
“13-00000 SECRET Embassy. It didn't even have one at the time. The only one that was in town was the one on G-2 under General McGarr. And what the hell was the G-2 officer, Colonel someone, I can't remember. Anyway, so I built a war room for Bill so we could plot and have h”
“13-00000 SECRET of a circus atmosphere there was. If it were a simple executive session kind of look-see and the Senators or the Representatives involved were not running for President — some. of them like Church did, and others — depends on a whole atmosphere. It's hard ”
“mer-ly saving that that is not the way we did business, and on the whole, Sidney Gott 1i els would be as familiar with that as I would -- perhaps not as■ familiar with it, because he was on the echnical side where 1 was Cl. the operational side and used to this chair, of ”
“13-00000 TOP SECRET going business of the DDP office, be cause this was taking a great deal of my time. Question: This was a tacit agreement, this wasn't a session in which you and Helms Bissell: Let me say this was probably not that explicit. I would make an observ”
“13-00000 4 SECRET Jake on that in terms of trying to get air support it was basically on a person-to-person basis. It's what you can wheedle out of somebody and get them to do it the right way instead of being able to command them and not having to spend your time massag”
“and I remember one of them. I'd pick up the phone and say, "Charlie, here's my problem: I've got to get from point A to point B and I've got to do it fast." "Jesus Christ. All right. I'll call you back." And within the hour. or whatever it took him, he'd say, "You go from A, ”
“lot more, at least I would have felt more comfortable, in knowing that we weren't going to face some of the problems that Jake Esterline had faced. One of the things we didn't have to worry about, and Jake did have to worry about, is this business of the air support. We were”
“-29- hours. Well, it didn't happen. I suspected that it, would take longer than that; I don't } know how you intrude on T.V. stations 1 broadcasting and get the people in the 9 50 their TAV3 sets country to go immediatelytto . and watch a program. I called scientists i”
“blast at one of his troops 1without himself, in effect, taking out of his guns and . shooting the SOB who did it. I'll give you a perfect example of that. I was on a telephone call to J.C. King, and J.C. was chewing me out on the phone about something I wasn't even involved”
“Hill. And that became an industry all of its own. I'm sure, I mean, just without even having been there, I know enough about the bureaucracy as to how it works. And it had to be. And it was a continuing operation. And it creates a hell of a lot of trouble among the troops and ”
“13-00000 SECRET why should I believe it." Well, the negotiating went on bit by bit, bit by bit, day after day. It developed everything. All they had to do was look at the information and the guy was following the text. It was unbelievable. And fortunately, fortunately, be”
“of the things they were after was Rogue Elephant running operations against Cuba. And it had been written about quite a bit and all that kind of stuff. And they didn't have a clue. And they didn't like the idea that, as far as I was concerned, the Kennedy boys were in charge.”
“13-00000 SECRET of Mount Sinai. You know. And he said, "Most of these things are done by people like you and me." He said, "I don't know what you had for breakfast. Whether you had a fight with your wife. Whether you had a cold and a headache that day." And a lot of these”
“13-00000 SECRET his actions. But you can't have 535 so-called elected representatives plus 18,000 staffers second-guessing what the President and his entire government bureaucracy is doing day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second. It won't work, it jus”
“declassified. Can't even look at my own testimony. Oddly enough, I told this to Chuck when he called me and gave me the date. I looked at my old calendars I keep all my old calendars. I never had any calendar that I kept while I was working but ever since I left the job, ove”
“13-00000 SECRET single executive session up on the Hill, including the one I was at, he had a television show right after the meeting broke up. They were waiting for him outside the door with cameras and lights. And we, you and I, as American citizens paid for all of the e”
“and you can't know all the things that we know." Well, that's what we have been saying all along. Not everybody can know everything. And you can't have it that way, that's all. And I must say, the Senate Committee, I think which is better even than the House Committee in som”
“for. So I talked to Dick and talked to Tom and gave them as much as I could. And I just guessed that somewhere along the way in their private discussion or private testimony the stuff that wasn't the public stuff, before you get in front of the public television and what have”
“told you, Lansdale came no down to visit me in Miami on one occasion. He came as part of to that three-man group. But my chain of command.during my to to visit was still from me to Harvey. Lansdale was down there. 02 to I was to be, you know, straightforward, candid”
“Congress in those days. And their concern was: a) not themselves getting to know too much of the secrets that went on; and b) they felt largely, you pick good people, you give them a job to do, you give them the tools to do it and don't muck around with them. Particularly, in ”
“13-00000 SECRET nothing with the Church nonsense and MHCHAOS. It was all in the foreign affairs field. And they were mucking around all over the place trying to get into stuff which we held as classified both we the State Department, the Defense Department, what have you. ”
“saw a piece of intelligence that was worth the life of anybody. I differ with him about that. There was some intelligence which I think was worth more than the life of a person. I can give you an example of that later. But, the committees, I think, deliberately didn't want to”
“TOP SECRET 59 Acea 2021 5 4 4 6 0 0 0 on two or three points. And I said, I am exercising my rights 2 under the CIA, and so on. 3 “But he said, I have got to run, and it was about five 4 past five. And I asked him if he understood in effect what 5 he was doing,“the implic”
“13-00000 SECRET office on the telephone, that whole story makes no sense, makes no sense at all without an assassination plot in the background. And the worst thing to me, and looking at that damn report again, why they didn't say, when the President and Rusk said “Trinid”
“13-00000 SECRET Agency and staying with the. operation. Both of them said “This isn't going to work, it's useless.” BL: This was exactly when Sam? SH: About a week before the invasion, I don't even know the date but it happened on a Sunday. BL: What was the precipitat”
“got out of there. And that night I see Frank Church on television telling about all this stuff they had just heard. Not once, he never mentioned my name. My name was never mentioned except, I was told later, in the late edition, a late city edition of The New York Times in Ne”